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Extreme Flight 53in Peregrine guide
As usually happens, one of these guides comes about after a call from several someones asking for a servo recommendation. Eventually I’m repeating myself, and when it gets to be entirely too repetitious, then it’s time for a guide.
This is a Peregrine, a sweet flying 53″ handful from Extreme Flight.
Your principal benefit of this guide is in, a) having access to my thoughts on ‘your’ schedule instead of waiting to actually get a hold of me. And note; if any question come to your mind after reading this, then reach out and ask so I may add your question/answer to the guide because unlike a magazine where once it prints, it’s never revisited, we can go back and improve the guide to better help the next guy *after* it’s been published. Win-win!
But also, b) because as builders share their experience with me, then I tell you about it in the guide. Point being, together we’re deploying tribal knowledge to better advance the sport. This means everyone benefits as we up level of the game, most especially the next guy’s!
Anyway, the impetus for one of these occasionally comes about from noticing a pattern in sales. When this happened not long ago, it resulted in the Freewing Mig.29 electric EDF guide.
This, because we noticed a buying pattern for two DS100DLHV (or DS150CLHV) micro servos. Once it was brought to my attention, I wondered . . . hmmm, why is this?
So I set about to find out. How? By picking up the phone and asking! End result? Yet another caseSTUDY guide, this time for the very popular Freewing EDF model of the Russian fighter.
So like I said, I reached out to several of these folks and they all said pretty much the same thing. They were replacing the two stock elevon/taileron servos that came with the model (FYI, elevon and taileron being the words used to describe full-flying elevators that also function as ailerons to improve maneuverability).
Note; if we’ve piqued your curiosity, just click the above image!
And interestingly, we sometimes get further sales after the initial 2-servo sale because once folks unfamiliar with ProModeler get a set in their hands, and liking what they see, they come back for more. E.g. they, more often than you’d believe, strip out the junkers and completely re-populate the servos. Yes, for their entire model, which means our plan for world domination is working!
By the way, in case you’re unaware, like the full-scale aircraft, this EDF has thrust vectoring nozzles fitted (yes, even more servos). This option makes it capable of unique flight not often seen at the model flying field – saying your buddies will flip, also when they this thing perform a Cobra maneuver!
Don’t know what I’m talking about? Only one jet in the world does what’s called the Pugachev Cobra Maneuver, click the link to learn more.
So I mention the MiG.29 partly because they use two servos that work really well in the Peregrine, the DS100DLHV or the DS150CLHV, both what we consider to be micro servos.
Note; the rest of the MiG.29 uses DS75CLHV and DS105CLHV sub-micro servos, which are not used in the Peregrine. Anyway, this is our micro, available in 100oz-in and 150oz-in varieties.
And with the Mig.29, like with the Peregrine model, it was basically due to the same thing happening, once again . . . we noticed an unusual buying pattern of four micros and two minis.
Curious as to why, I once again picked up the phone and asked! The why turned out to be the 53 inch wingspan Extreme Flight Peregrine!
Contents
Different *but* the same, all over again
So all the above by way of explaining, *here we are once again*, another servo guide white paper, but this time it’s a bit different. Why different? Simple, it’s because I got so enthused after chatting with folks regarding this diminutive biplane, I ordered one for myself!
And if I’m honest, I needed another Extreme Flight model like I needed a hole in my head. This, because I already own quite a few due to them being so nice to fly.
And the answer to, Why did you do this?, is probably the same as why ‘you’ wanted one . . . like just look at this thing! Is it hot, or what?
So here’s the interesting thing to me about the Peregrine, and maybe you’ll agree. You see, despite spanning a dainty 53in, the rest of the model is a lot like an Extreme Flight 60″ class (perhaps the most popular size model on the planet).
Beauty of this is it makes putting it into your vehicle in one-piece doable for many of you – me included. And this is convenient!
The usual stuff
So being a 60-class means the fuselage length and power sub-system are exactly what you’d expect for an 60″ Extra NG or Gamebird. E.g. a 6S3300-3700 LiPo pack, 16×8 prop, 100A ESC, but instead of four mini-class DS160CLHV or DS210CLHV servos (or DS205BLHV if you have deep pockets), there are just two minis. The latter two for the rudder and elevator. Huh, just two?
Yup, reason is to do with the wings, two of them so this actually means four wing-panels and four servos. But because they’re much, much smaller than 60-class wing panels (more like those for a 52″ class model like a 3D Hobby Shop Edge 540), we’re using smaller servos instead of mini class!
For the Peregrine it means using the same micro-class servos as most 52″ wingspan 3D-models. So your servo purchase will be four micros plus two mini-class servos. Six servos instead of four.
And with regard to micros, since we offer two built in the same case, it means either our DS100DLHV or the DS150CLHV, both a tad smaller than a mini at 29×13.5mm vs. 36x16mm.
So while the wing panels are individually small, the four aileron surfaces amount to about the same area as those of a 60in model. And due to the reduced wingspan, the model rolls like no tomorrow!
Obviously, smaller flying surfaces mean thinner airfoils and wing panels, yet they still require a powerful a servo. For modeler to turn to our micro-class servos makes perfect sense.
Motor/ESC/Prop stuff, part 1
So while I ordered my 53″ Peregrine in green, I could have selected red, too. I went with the AM600 motor and no ESC. Note; as usual, clicking links within one of these articles opens it within a separate browser tab. This, so you won’t lose your place. So feel free to click!
So why just the motor? It’s because I’ve got plenty of 100A speed controls and props. Speaking of props, I ordered the recommended $9 plastic prop. Why if I just said I have plenty of props? Simple, because I’ve never used one of these inexpensive plastic props and the price is sufficiently attractive to be a, ‘Why not?’ class of purchase.
Like maybe I’ll hate it, or maybe I’ll love it. Won’t know unless I try it for myself because asking the opinion of someone else about a prop is tricky in my opinion. About like asking someone if they prefer boxers or briefs, or soft vs. hard bristle toothbrush. Only one way to find out, for yourself, because it’s an empirical kind of thing.
So why the T-motor AM600 instead of something better known? Mostly to try it for myself. That, and because of a recommendation of KenBry, someone I respect, within the NG thread on RCG. He has experience with it versus the XPW22 and I know I said these kinds of decisions can’t be made because of what someone else says, but I also believe in ‘Why overthink when you trust the advice?, so obviously, I can blow hot and cold like anybody else.
Right now is my mantra on these kinds of things is, try it and see. Added to which, he’s highly experienced and knowledgeable fellow, so why not?
Recapping the point of this brief how-to
Servo wise I’ve had maybe a dozen or so customers order servos for this model before I actually knew about it. That’s right, not until after the fact did I learn what was going on.
This is because by the time I became aware of it, many sets had gone out the door (we have people for orders and different people for Pick & Pack). Point being, I am not always aware of everything going on (unless I’m needed for some reason). Saying, I hire good people and then leave them alone to do their thing.
No, not like I’m out of touch, just no reason to be checking up on them. Means sometimes I don’t learn about things until later. I’m OK with this because it’s part and parcel with leaving folks alone to get things done. After all, nobody likes the boss breathing down their neck, I didn’t, so I don’t do it.
Anyway, once I became aware of an interesting pattern of sales, I investigated. Turns out we had quite a few sales for two minis and four micros. And just like with the Freewing Mig.29, it wasn’t until I looked into why, that I learned what was really going on. These were nearly all going into the Extreme Flight Peregrine!
The problem with this is I immediately got enthused because of their enthusiasm. So I fought it and fought it but ultimately, I couldn’t help it and sure enough, I ended up buying myself another EF model.
In my defense, gosh, the thing is so pretty I just couldn’t help myself. Fortunately, both fixed wing clubs I’m a member of fly off hard surfaces so the itty-bitty wheel pants might survive more than a half-dozen flights. We’ll cross that bridge when we get to it.
Servo alternatives
Servo-wise, EF offer servo packages. As for us, two popular set ups have appeared on our RADAR. One using four of our DS100DLHV and a pair of DS160CLHV, and the other setup being a rather nice step-up grade-wise to our DS150CLHV micro (same size as the DS100, again four on ailerons) and either a pair of DS210CLHV or DS205BLHV for the tail feathers.
One guy called and was going with our DS150 micros and a pair of KST MS589 for rudder and elevator. When I asked why not our DS160 since ours are 20 bucks cheaper with 160oz-in vs 128oz-in of torque and faster, also at 0.06sec/60° vs 0.08sec/60° (and weighing a tiny bit less by 5g), he said, ‘Sure, why not?’ And added them to his order.
FWIW, I’ve eyeballed the MS589 and they’re making a pretty decent product. There are places I feel we do better.
For example, in using bronze inserts in the engineering polymer (fiber-filled Nylon 6,6 as used in a Glock handgun, and for the same reasons, it’s tough as Hell) you get an assembly that’s lighter yet tougher and more durable. Why? It’s because the steel gear shafts fitted straight into raw aluminum will wear the bores more quickly, resulting in accelerated gear wear.
Yes, it’s just a small detail but when you’re matching up to a great servo like the KST, it’s the little tings that count. But I digress, so if you’re curious, then click the image below to read the matchUP between the two mini servos, then decide for yourself.
The other fellow I’ve actually spoken to called to order DS150 micros as well, but he was going with Savox 1260MG for the tail feathers. If you’re unfamiliar with them, they’re a very, very nicely made all-alloy coreless mini, which are generally on offer for $88 a pop from the usual sources, e.g. Amain, eBay, Amazon, et al.
So I mentioned our DS160 (also coreless but with all-stainless steel gears) but he was hot for an all-alloy case. So next I mentioned our DS205BLHV (205oz-in vs 167oz-in and tremendously quicker at 0.052sec/60° vs 0.055sec/60°). These are priced similarly at $80 each (so $160 for the pair versus whatever the SV-1260MG go for).
Several advantages accrue by selecting this one versus the SAVOX including:
- Brushless vs coreless motor
- Better cooling due to CNC-machined fins in the case
- All stainless steel gear train vs ordinary all-metal
- Plus steel bushings inserts reinforcing the alloy case
. . . and after a few minutes studying the product page, he, too, was immediately game set match, this time for the DS205 minis.
Servo motors
So I just mentioned a difference in motors, coreless vs brushless. If you’re unaware of what makes a brushless motor different from a coreless motor, then review this article and bone up because a brushless motor is waaaaay better.
Note; you’ll become your club’s servo expert, e.g. the guy everyone turns to when it comes to servos when you’re done. I promise!
And it’s not like this servo-motor information is secret, or anything, but until I cut motors open on the lathe and posted close up photos explaining what made one different from the other, I am unaware of another source of information disclosing these details. After all, these are the types of motors all servo manufacturers have available so even if you don’t fancy our servos, you’re ahead of the game for reading about this.
Back to servo alternatives for the Peregrine; there have been a handful of orders for four of the DS100DLHV instead of the DS150CLV ($40 vs $50), and as is most common, matched with a pair of DS160. And when I called these folks I learned budget was playing a strong role.
Anyway, of three of the guys ordering DS100 vs DS150, they are existing customers so they’re familiar with our lineup (two of them fly Senior Pattern Association models who use this servo already so it was a no brainer they’d select it since they’re more IMAC type smooth pilots).
If you’re unfamiliar with SPA models, these are aircraft from the 60s, 70s, and 80s that conform to the AMA rules from before the FAI took over with F3C 10-cell types spanning 2m.
This next photo is a perfect description of the type of aircraft we’re talking about, 62-65 inch span, air powered retracts, and almost 100% powered by a 2-stroke nitro burner. In fact, for many (but not all), their use of a vintage SuperTigre Bluehead,Webra Speed, or K&B .61 engines is a ‘thang’.
And note, these SPA-type are separate and distinct from the folks who are into pretty mellow 3D-type maneuvers. Folks perfectly satisfied with the DS100DLHV versus the 50% bump in torque (plus a speed increase) which we deliver with the DS150CLHV micro servo.
Anyway, the other guy ordering DS100 with DS160 for the stabs was a new customer with whom I’d never spoken. He was pleased to hear from me saying he’d never had a call from anyone at Spektrum.
So there have been more than a few ProModeler owners ordering DS150 and DS210CLHV minis, the latter sitting midway, pricewise, between DS160 and DS205 at $70 bucks each. And while I can’t speak for anybody else, the Peregrine certainly seems to be really popular. At least based on what we’re seeing in the way of servo orders.
Plus, like I said, it’s a very, very pretty bird. But the most popular setup seems to be a pair of DS160CLHV for the stabs, plus four DS150CLHV for the wings.
So I’ve already received servo installation photos from a few customers (below). Also, reports are assembly is a doodle. Here’s one photo to tease. It’s a DS150 micro on aileron with a PDRS32-25T servo arm.
Radio Setup
As far as radio setup goes, one guy is planning on using Y-harness to join his ailerons (right side upper/lower with one Y-harness, and left side with another. I cautioned him a Y-harness is probably OK if he’s using 20AWG extensions *but* I’d think twice about that tactic if planning on using the 28AWG extensions, which EF offer.
Reason for this is simple; it’s because I’d be concerned about the voltage loss they’d see when loaded hard (thus, maybe resulting in servos behaving oddly as voltage loss manifests during hard use). This article explains nicely. And note; this is true regardless of whose servos you select, ProModeler, or another brand because . . . physics!
Eyeball specs for DS150 (~2A each, max) and you’ll understand what I mean since a single DuPont connector is a 3.5A device.
Basically, this means a pair of servos will be fine whilst cruising fat dumb and happy (consuming 2A between them) but when the servos begin working hard? Well, that’s when all bets are off because I think current for two servos will exceed 3.5A a fair bit of the time. Heads up.
Radio setup continued
Can’t say what *you* should do in terms of setting up, I’m not in love with the idea of Y-harnesses but as usual, the answer for you is . . . it depends. Depends on what?
Well, your radio and its capabilities but *my* plan is to use an 18MZ. As part of the course of ordinary business, I have several Rf-systems to select from because we test servos with all the brands. This, to include the aforementioned Futaba 18MZ, and 14MZ, Jeti DS12, JR 11X, a Spektrum NX10, plus a FrSky Trannis 9, which for sure will do this. So I’m thinking set up lower right as master, lower left as left-master. Then link the two as master-slave.
Anyway, next, set up upper right as slave to master (right), and upper left as slave to master (left). This way I get full control of neutral, end points, and ATV for each *and* if needs be, I set up a 12-pt curve. But I might be wrong. I have a 1/3 scale Pitts (Great Planes, +20 years old with four servo wing setup and I’m not using Y-harnesses with it, either) so I know *I* have a solution. You? Dunno. Depends!
Flight sim
Speaking of flying, I came across a link to Real Flight 9.5 simulator model of the Peregrine, click the link and check it out.
Meanwhile, let’s see where we are; we’ve eyeballed a servo into an aileron complete with PDRS32-25T servo horn and if you’ve seen one, you’ve seen all four so I won’t waste your time showing you the other three.
We’ve also seen how a DS160CLHV fits in the rudder opening (nicely, naturally) and a DS205BLHV test fitted into the elevator opening. And if the DS205 goes in, the DS160 or DS210 do as well, so again, not going to waste time showing those just because I have beaucoup Peregrine photos.
How about a look at the motor install?
Heads up, mounting the ESC where it can get plenty of cooling is critical to function. However, let me give my spiel against depending on the BEC to power your avionics. My regulars know what’s coming, which is, I don’t think this is a good idea at all. Learn more here;
Basically, if the ESC goes poof (and they can, and do), then you become a crash spectator because it takes the BEC circuit with it. If, on the other hand you’re savvy enough to use a dedicated battery pack for the avionics, one like a B2S1800 (or like the B2S850 below) if you’re freaky about weight, then you just deadstick to landing and puzzle it it out.
Don’t believe me? This fellow went his own way and showing the high caliber of man he is, wrote to send me this photo saying, ‘You were right, John, my ESC went tits up and I crashed my beloved Extreme Flight Turbo Raven. So I bought another. Now I use a dedicated pack instead of the integrated ESC-source.
Want to know something? I bet quite a few guys would have kept this to himself. Me? I’m thinking it takes a real man to fess up when he screwed up, and if you ever meet this fellow, then know this, I hold him in the highest personal esteem.
So if you’re a fan of this lovely model of the Extreme Flight 69 inch wingspan Turbo Raven (I am, and own one myself), then there’s a caseSTUDY available to review, already. Just follow this link.
Wrapping up
So let’s bring this to a close. If you’re going to go against advice and use Y-harnesses, then as I mentioned earlier, the 28AWG extensions EF offer are iffy in my opinion. And note, this is a *maybe* even with our Y-harness, which is a real shorty and uses 20AWG leads.
Extensions
For reference, our recommended extensions for this model, all have twisted leads to combat noise in the event an ESC gets funky, have that super supple silicone jacket, and use 20AWG high strand count copper wire for minimal voltage loss. You need;
qty 2) 4″ long
qty 2) 6″ long
qty 2) 12″ long
qty 2) 24″ long
Servo arms
You’re going to need qty 6) and if you’re into XA flight, the the right arms are the PDRS32-25T and if you’re more into IMAC, the the shorter PDRS20-25T will do the trick. Both are made of 7075-T6 aircraft aluminum and have the strong H-beam cross section.
Note; if you fly Spektrum, consider adding a capacitor at the receiver.
Close
So now we’re going to wrap this up. This is the best information I have at the time of this writing. every bot of it is opinion and you know what they say about those . . . they’re like belly buttons because we all have one!
A pair of DS160CLHV minis and four DS150CLHV micros through six PDRS32-25T servo arms have been the hot ticket for the Extreme Flight 53 inch wingspan Peregrine when equipped with ProModeler servos. Smart money uses a dedicated pack for the avionics, either B2S850 if you’re super weight conscious, or B2S1800 if you’re not. And savvy Spektrum users add a low-ESR cap to the bus to help guard against brownout. Plus we’ve shared our thoughts about what you need in the way of extensions.
If you have any questions, email us at: info@promodeler.com or give us a call at: 407-302-3361 because we’re easy to find.